Workers of lawlessness

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Duke12VonFalkenburg

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Can anybody shed some more light on Matthew 7:21-23 for me? I read them and I start to wonder. “Well gee, if people who cast out demons and do mighty works and prophesies are rejected… then what about me? I’m not anything special.

Why does he call them workers of lawlessness when they do mighty works and cast out demons?

Catholic Study Bible

Matthew 7:21-23

21 "Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’
 
I think it was about how Jesus knew that their hearts were impure, and that their outward acts were all for show.

What is in the heart is ultimately what is most important to Him.

Edit to add: He never knew them, or had a personal relationship with them.
 
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God loves mercy , compassion, love far above anything else. If love is missing, anything else is just fluff.
 
Duke12VonFalkenburg said:
Can anybody shed some more light on Matthew 7:21-23 for me? I read them and I start to wonder. “Well gee, if people who cast out demons and do mighty works and prophesies are rejected… then what about me? I’m not anything special.

Why does he call them workers of lawlessness when they do mighty works and cast out demons?
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Duke12VonFalkenburg. Great question and I won’t pretend I KNOW.

But I THINK it might have to do with using these gifts to lead people astray.

St. Peter also talks about such people saying (from a prior posting from me where I was showing how justification by faith ALONE is a false tradition of men that makes void the commandments of God) . . .

Many False Teachers Deny Necessity of Works Wrongly Using Writings of St. Paul

Heed the warnings of St. Peter regarding this chicanery or deception.

St. Peter warned against certain “ignorant and unstable” men that twist St. Paul’s writings and other Scriptures.

St. Peter warned that people; in following these “ignorant and unstable” men, can get “carried away” and you can even “lose your own stability”.

But how did St. Peter characterize these “ignorant and unstable” men who themselves lead people astray?

Fortunately Scripture tells us.

St. Peter COULD have correctly characterized some “ignorant and unstable” men who
lead people astray as faith-LESS men . . . but he didn’t.

St. Peter COULD have correctly characterized some “ignorant and unstable” men who
lead people astray as hope-LESS men . . . but he didn’t.

So HOW DID St. Peter characterize these “ignorant and unstable” men?

HOW DID St. Peter paint these guys who frequently use St. Paul’s writings and other passages (“as they do the other Scriptures”), that lead people astray?

St. Peter characterized them as LAW-LESS men!

.
2nd PETER 3:17 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless (athesmōn) men and lose your own stability.
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2nd PETER 3:15-18 15 And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand , which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability . 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
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2nd PETER 3:17 (From the NIV [A Protestant translation]) Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.
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He says He never knew them. Their love was conditional. They failed to love Jesus because they didn’t love some of the needy. The people on the right loved without conditions.
 
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Very interesting! I screenshot what you wrote so I can refer to it again and contemplate. What do you think he meant by calling them “lawless”? I’m trying to imagine what these men might have been like. The picture in my mind would be someone like Rasputin. You know? Charismatic and preachy but a hypocrite to the core.
 
Vico said:
some are partakers of the divine nature.
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Right, that’s what I’m thinking of when Matthew 7:21-23 says that they cast out demons, did mighty works, and prophesied. Someone who does these things would be considered by most to be a partaker of the divine nature but yet are rejected by Jesus as doers of lawlessness or evildoers depending on the translation.
 
Duke12VonFalkenburg said:
… rejected by Jesus as doers of lawlessness or evildoers depending on the translation.
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If one does not die in a state of grace, heaven it not the end, regardless of what good was done during a portion of the life.

See The Parable of the Sower and The Parable of the Weeds in Matthew 13.
 
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Duke12VonFalkenburg said:
What do you think he meant by calling them “lawless”? I’m trying to imagine what these men might have been like.
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I’m thinking that they were teachers (in a primary sense Churchmen, but in a secondary sense, catechetical leaders) that de-emphasized the Royal Law of Liberty.

They de-emphasized works.

Not deemphasizing “works” in an Old Covenant works such as circumcision (i.e. Galatians 2:11-16a), sense (works which were not intimately united to the graces of the Cross) and Jesus and the Blessed Mother.

Not deemphasizing “works” in an natural virtue sense either, like “being a good guy” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Atheists even have natural virtue.

No. Not deemphasizing those types of works.

I think these guys deemphasized works done in the Spirit of God (that we were graced with in Baptism). God working IN YOU and through you.
Works that can save you because salvation is not merely a moment (Baptism) for those of us who live after we are baptized, but a moment, followed by a process. A lifelong process.

That’s WHY St. John in the Book of Revelation says, “he that is justified, let him be justified further still.”

1/2 . . .
 
2/2 . . .

That’s WHY St. John in the Book of Revelation says, “he that is justified, let him be justified further still.”

That economy of WORKING with the Spirit of God dwelling within us in a special way (ever since our Baptism) is PART of our salvation. That is WHY St. Paul can remind us in His letter to the Galatians . . . .
GALATIANS 5:6, 6:7-9 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love. . . .
. . . 7 Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.
8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption;
but he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
9 And let us not grow weary in well-doing, for in due season we shall reap, if we do not lose heart.
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The “works” of God that we are to also take advantage of, par excellence are the Sacraments. That’s where the Churchmen come into the formula.

God “never knowing them” may in some cases be lay people who were never “born-again” or never baptized.

But I think Jesus is talking about people in a different sense. I think He is alluding to those who throw away Final Perseverance. Especially teachers (Churchmen and laity).

Henever knew them in the sense they were not of “The Elect” (God is outside of the realm of time).

I think He is talking about them never being known in the sense of not being of “God’s Elect”
because the Matthew 7 paasage is in the sense of the end of time (the context of judgment) in one layer
and admittedly, at the end of their lives in another layer (see CCC 113-117).

We see St. John use that language in 1st John 2 saying . . .
1st JOHN 2:18-19, 26 Children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come; therefore we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out, that it might be plain that they all are not of us. . . . 26 I write this to you about those who would deceive you
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St. Paul implicitly suggests the same to the Bishops and Priests at Ephesus . . .
ACTS 20:28-30 28 Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you guardians, to feed the church of the Lord which he obtained with his own blood. 29 I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves will arise men speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.
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Duke12VonFalkenburg said:
Can anybody shed some more light on Matthew 7:21-23 for me? I read them and I start to wonder. “Well gee, if people who cast out demons and do mighty works and prophesies are rejected
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It reminds me of Judas, who did the mighty works but then fell away. It can happen to anyone, this is why we must persevere to the end.
 
Thank you so much for your thorough response it has been very valuable to me and I learned a lot! I have to ask where will you be going after the CAF Apocalypse?
 
That makes a lot of sense actually. I have to ask. Where do you plan on going after CAF closes?
 
Those parables really put things in perspective. Thanks!
 
Duke12VonFalkenburg said:
I have to ask where will you be going after the CAF Apocalypse?
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I think I am just going to spend more time on working on Catholic Bible studies for our local men’s group.

But you mean posting-wise.

I don’t know yet. Still prayerfully discerning.

Thanks for asking.

How 'bout you?
 
From the Rev. George Leo Haydock Bible Commentary:
Ver. 21. Here Jesus Christ shews, that it is not sufficient to believe in him and hear his words, but that in order to salvation, we must join works with faith; for in this shall we be examined at the last day. M. — Without faith they could not cry out, Lord, Lord. Rom. x. But the strongest faith without the works of justice, will not be available to salvation. 1 Cor. xiii. B. — Many who have the Lord continually in their mouths, but care little about putting on the Lord, or penetrating themselves with his true spirit, will find their presumption, and the false consciences they have made to themselves, wofully disappointed. A.

Ver. 22. Have not we prophesied in thy name? The gift of prophecy, and of doing miracles, may sometimes be granted to bad men, as to Caiphas, and Balaam. Wi. — Under the name of prophets, the Hebrews comprised not only such as predicted future events, but also in general all such as gave themselves out for inspired, or who undertook teaching and interpreting the holy Scriptures; and here by prophesying is understood, in a general acceptation, all public functions, predicting futurity, expounding Scripture, instructing the people, preaching, &c. V.

Ver. 23. So as to approve and reward your works. Here he shews that even prophecy and miracles will not save us without good works. M. — How much less will faith, unassisted by good works, preserve us from condemnation. A. — The gift of miracles is bestowed on men not for their own good, but for the advantage of others. We must not then be surprised if men, who had indeed faith in Christ, but whose lives did not correspond with their faith, should be honoured with these extraordinary gifts, since the Almighty sometimes employs as his instruments in working similar wonders, men destitute both of faith and virtue. Balaam, void of faith and probity, still by the will of God, prophesied for the advantage of others. To Pharao and Nabuchodonosor were revealed future events of the greatest moment; and the wicked Judas himself cast out devils. Therefore S. Paul said, “if I had all faith so as to remove mountains, and if I knew all mysteries, and was possessed of all wisdom, but had not charity, I am nothing.” Hom. xv. S. Chry.
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