"Good will towards men" --- mistranslation, and why?

[po18guy]

Wasn’t arguing, but I am almost always misunderstood and also misunderstand.

Bishop Challoner (D-R) has Ephesians 6, for example, “Children” and Monsignor Ronald Know has it “Brethren”

Honestly, it might as well read “good will toward sheep and to hell with the goats”

 

[Julius_Caesar]

Honestly, it might as well read “good will toward sheep and to hell with the goats”

The Vulgate has a similar translation. Or are the words of Consecration suddenly Calvinistic?

 

[HomeschoolDad]

po18guy:

Honestly, it might as well read “good will toward sheep and to hell with the goats”

The Vulgate has a similar translation. Or are the words of Consecration suddenly Calvinistic?

In 45 years as a Catholic and a Christian (the KJV says it too), if I can be totally honest, that has always troubled me. I hope I don’t tear up my “traditionalist card” by saying this, but even though both the KJV and pro multis say “for many”, it sounds very Calvinistic to me, sounds like His Blood was not shed for those who reject Him, but only for those who are predestined to salvation in the first place. In my “baby Catholic” days, I actually found “for all” in the OF Mass to be comforting, as though “now this is the Jesus I know, He shed His Blood for all, not ‘many’, and those who reject Him, reject this Blood of their salvation — but It is there for them if they later repent of it, and He longs for them to do that, until the last moment of their lives if need be”.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

In 45 years as a Catholic and a Christian (the KJV says it too), if I can be totally honest, that has always troubled me.

If you accept Christ, it shouldn’t. Christ’s merits only hold for those who have faith, hence why it is shed for many.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

The Roman Cathechism is helpful

“With reason, therefore, were the words ‘for all’ not used, as in this place the fruits of the Passion are alone spoken of, and to the elect only did His Passion bring the fruit of salvation. And this is the purport of the Apostle when he says: ‘Christ was offered once to exhaust the sins of many’; and also of the words of our Lord in John: ‘I pray for them; I pray not for the world, but for them whom thou hast given me, because they are thine’.”

So do not be troubled. Strive to be of the many who receive salvation by His Blood.

 

[pnewton]

Translations should never be troubling. Prepositions in all languages are tricky, taking on different meanings based on context. I looked up parallel Bibles and it looks like most newer translations are reverting back to the Vulgate meaning, but in the KJV, it was just a different way of seeing the noun case, and not knowing for sure what it modified.

Loss of accuracy is unavoidable even in contemporary to contemporary translating.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

The Roman Cathechism is helpful

“With reason, therefore, were the words ‘for all’ not used, as in this place the fruits of the Passion are alone spoken of, and to the elect only did His Passion bring the fruit of salvation. And this is the purport of the Apostle when he says: ‘Christ was offered once to exhaust the sins of many’; and also of the words of our Lord in John: ‘I pray for them; I pray not for the world, but for them whom thou hast given me, because they are thine’. ”

So do not be troubled. Strive to be of the many who receive salvation by His Blood.

This is so refreshing, the same way that it is refreshing to open the windows of a stuffy house and let the cool, crisp breezes blow away all the stuff and mustiness.

The Roman Catechism has quite a track record behind it. So clear, so unambiguous. Again, a breath of fresh air. Thanks so much.

 

[BlueKumul]

In this case “men” means all humans. Or even all intelligent beings in the Cosmos.